The following is the transcript of Glenn Beck’s radio interview with me yesterday.
GLENN: I also wanted to get Joel Rosenberg on the phone with us. Joel is the author of several books. He was the? ?they called him the Nostradamus of 9/11 after 9/11 because he wrote a book. What was the name of that book, Joel? What was it?
ROSENBERG: The Last Jihad.
GLENN: The Last Jihad. In it, he had jihadists flying planes into buildings but it was in Denver, Colorado. And then we had people saying, oh, my gosh, he’s going to actually say what he believes, that’s politically incorrect for us. And so Joe went into nether regions of places like shows like mine and where he continues to speak his mind and tell the truth as he sees it. Joel, I thought about you last? ?in the last few weeks with Russia. You and I have talked about, over a year ago about how dangerous Russia is and how Russia has its alliance with Iran, and I thought of you Glenn last week because I believe you told me a while back, watch for Russia and Syria to also get in bed and that’s what they were doing last week.
ROSENBERG: Well, that’s right, Glenn. You and I have spoken extensively over the last several years about the rise of Vladimir Putin as a czar and this week, of course, my original nonfiction book on this, Epicenter, has just been released, Epicenter 2.0 in paperback which we update extensively the last two things that have happened with Russia, Syria, Iran the Middle East but there’s going to have to be a 3.0 now because it had already went to press before this Russian invasion of Georgia. And, of course, this new alliance is building with Syria. It’s very, very dangerous. As I said? Epicenter originally, who was not going to leave office? I actually sat in the U.S. embassy in Moscow meeting with all of their top political analysts four years ago and I said with Vladimir Putin’s power to himself, rebuilding the Russian military and threatening its neighbors, do you really think he’s going to step down when his term ends in 2008, and every single one of them, Glenn, said absolutely. I said, why? What would be the incentive for him to leave? He said, well, he’s sort of a Catholic legalism. He would just go because it’s the right thing to do. And I said, what would he do? I mean, go to Club Med, you know, run a dot com?
GLENN: No. He could have run like a Taekwondo class.
ROSENBERG: Perhaps. In fact, he didn’t leave. He just changed hats from president to prime minister and now he’s taken the first military action outside of Russia since 1979 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.
GLENN: Okay. So here’s the thing. I wanted to talk to you, Joel, because, you know, you are the guy? ?in case anybody hasn’t read any of Joel Rosenberg’s book, you need to. They are absolutely tremendous. And this is really for the freak edge, I think, but I believe there are a lot of people? ?no, no, no, come on, Joel. You and I? ?
ROSENBERG: President of crazy town.
GLENN: What did you say?
ROSENBERG: President of crazy town.
GLENN: But I have a lot of for the president. I’m the mayor of crazy town. You may be the president. We’ve talked about this before. We are in the minority of people, but there is a growing number of people that have a gut that is saying to them these are important times biblically speaking, and I think that as Connie Rice said, there are birth pangs that we are experiencing now. She said we experienced about three or four years ago and they are coming faster and faster. And I wanted to pick your brain on a couple of things just with Russia and Iran. Do you, first of all, believe that Israel will attack Iran before Bush leaves office?
ROSENBERG: Well, I wouldn’t want to predict it, but the signs are looking increasingly like that’s what the Israelis are preparing for. They believe that they have a window that’s rapidly closing. President Bush has been the most pro Israel President in American history. Certainly not perfect but, look, here’s the situation. They believe that Iran could have nuclear weapons by sometime mid to late 2009, number one. Number two, the Russians have sold a billion dollars worth of ground to air missile defenses to Iran. Haven’t delivered them yet but plan to sometime mid to late next year. Three, President Bush, because he’s been so supportive of Israel, might give Israel cover if Israel felt it needed to strike before those antiaircraft missiles were operational and before Iran had nukes. Where does that leave you? It leaves you with a window between the end of the American election in November and the inauguration of whomever is going to be the next President, and I think? ?and all signs seem to be indicating Israel’s preparing for a possible first strike very similar in their view to 1967 where they were surrounded by enemies who were threatening to throw the Jews into the sea, and Israel had two bad choices: Attack first and hope to neutralize the threat, as bad as that would be; or wait for a first strike against them which could eliminate their country. They chose to strike first. It didn’t turn out as bad as they thought, but the world, you know, the world’s now looking at a very similar situation to 1967.
GLENN: What do you think Russia? ?what role will Russia play? I think Russia will move to block for us.
ROSENBERG: They already are clearly. I mean, the Russians are now building? ?not only have they formed an alliance with Syria but Russia’s been selling billions of dollars worth of missiles and jet planes, fighter jets to Syria. And now they’re finishing up negotiations on building a Russian naval port in Syria because they are trying to move the Russian Navy back into the Mediterranean as they were trying to control that region during the Cold War. This is incredibly dangerous. And what’s happening is, what’s happening aside from Washington seeming to realize it or care is that Russia has joined the axis of evil.
ROSENBERG: It is selling weapons to our worst enemies: Iran, Syria, North Korea, and yet the? ?
GLENN: Putin? ?
ROSENBERG: Washington is generally feeling like, I don’t know if we really want to cause a problem with Russia.
ROSENBERG: We’re not causing the problem.
ROSENBERG: We just need to acknowledge it for starters.
GLENN: Putin thinks that he can control? ?I really think he’s looking at the Middle East as fuel. Not only control of oil but I mean actual fuel. He will use the Middle East to get his, you know, his dirty dealings done, but he really believes that he can control these crazies in the Middle East, doesn’t he?
ROSENBERG: He does. Putin, like many in the West, fundamentally misunderstands the nature and threat of the evil that is this particular regime in Iran. I distinguish the regime from the Iranian people, 70% of whom roughly have turned away from Islam and actually are quite pro American. But at the regime level this is not your? ?you know, this is not your grandfather’s Oldsmobile. This is not the same Iranian leadership that was nutty, crazy, dangerous. This is out of control dangerous now. Why? Because as you and I have discussed and as I discuss in this Epicenter book, the president of Iran as well as the supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini, they fundamentally believe that they have been chosen by Allah to alienate the United States and Israel to usher in the return of the Islamic Messiah known as the Mahdi. Now, Putin, I think because he is not a religious person and because he comes from a communist atheist system, just doesn’t understand that Ahmadinejad and Khomeini are crazy. I mean, they really are the type of people that will blow up the world if they get the chance. I think Putin thinks that he as the czar has control over them and I think he’s making? ?he’s playing with fire. He’s making a major mistake but he’s not the only one. You have the Democratic nominee, or presumptive nominee. But assuming that Clinton doesn’t steal it away in the next couple of days. You know, Senator Obama wants to sit down with the president of Iran.
GLENN: Does the idea of Joe Biden you feel any better?
ROSENBERG: Well, I like Joe Biden. He’s a nice, friendly guy. I disagree with him on just about every issue except for one day when he voted for the war in Iraq before he voted against it.
ROSENBERG: I mean, these guys, it’s interesting. But no, you know, you’d like to think that Senator Obama was hiring a grown up to oversee him, but Senator Biden’s judgment on a lot of major foreign policy issues has been disastrous. I would note that before he briefly had sanity on the Iraq issue, previously he had voted against the war to remove Saddam Hussein from the raping and pillaging of Kuwait back in 1990. So I think there’s some trouble there.
GLENN: Yeah. He was also for d??tat with Russia. Does it make you nervous at all? I mean, putting this in biblical terms, you know, you have described that it is the alliance between Russia and Iran that the book of Revelation points out as being a gigantic sign.
ROSENBERG: Well, the book of Ezekiel, yes. It’s the event, the Ezekiel prophecies of Chapters 38 and 39 precede the events that will happen in Revolution but there’s certainly a precursor for, a precondition for the total end of the world scenario that was laid out in Revelation. Yes. Look, I’m? ?as you and I have talked about, I’m an evangelical Christian from an orthodox Jewish heritage. My orthodox Jewish grandparents and great grandparents actually escaped out of Russia in 1907 when czar Nicholas II was trying to kill as many Jews as he could get his hands on. And what has always intrigued me from that Russian heritage, Jewish heritage and my evangelical Christian faith in the Bible is that the Bible is the only document in human history that said that Israel would be reborn as a country in the last days, that Jews would come back to the Holy Land after centuries of exile and then Russia, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, a group of other Middle Eastern countries would surround Israel and try to destroy her in those last days.
Now, we’ve seen a number of those specific elements already take place. We just celebrated the 60th anniversary of the rebirth of Israel. Jews are continuing to pour back into the Holy Land and now we’re watching this Russian/Iranian/Syrian/Sudanese, et cetera alliance. I’m not saying that we are definitely going to see the total fulfillment of the Ezekiel 38 and 39 prophecy in our lifetime.
GLENN: But you are not not saying it, either.
ROSENBERG: You couldn’t rule it out based on the trajectory which seems to be accelerating. Look at it. That Bible prophecy that we’re talking about, Glenn, talks about Russia coming from the north with its allies to attack Israel. Now, take out a map. Go to Moscow. Go straight south and before you get to Israel, where do you drive right through? Georgia.
GLENN: Okay. Joel, thank you very much. We’ll look for the 2.0 of Epicenter available in paperback now in bookstores and we’ll talk to you again, sir. Joel Rosenberg. Thanks, man, bye bye.
The following is the transcript of Glenn Beck’s interview with me on television Monday night:
BECK: Well, while the Democratic National Committee was trying to figure out how to buy organic fanny packs for the convention, not kidding, the President of Syria was busy in Moscow doing a little shopping of his own. The next generation surface-to-air missiles, one size fits all.
Russia has provided weapons to Syria in the past, but until now they`ve been holding back all the good stuff. The Syrian President at least thought, the whole Russia/Georgia/Moscow/Washington tension things might be a good time to exploit the previous arms sales restraint. And they did.
So what does it mean for the U.S. and our allies, a.k.a. Israel? Well, according to the “New York Times,” it`s no big deal, just possibly the end of counter-terrorism and nuclear non-proliferation cooperation, manipulation of oil and natural gas supplies, pressure against in United States military bases in Central Asia and the collapse of Cold War arms era treaties.
Other than that, don`t worry about it.
Joel Rosenberg is the author of “Epicenter 2.0.” Joel, I`ve been called crazy, because I was the mayor of Crazytown because I`ve been saying, look out, the economy, coming storm. Then Bear Stearns collapsed, now everybody was on it.
You`ve been the mayor of Crazytown, this seems to look a lot like scripture stuff. You told me, Syria, Russia, look out years ago. Here it is. What`s it mean?
JOEL ROSENBERG, AUTHOR, “EPICENTER 2.0”: Well, that`s right. As I laid out in my non-fiction book “Epicenter 2.0,” Russia is a serious problem as it`s being led by Vladimir Putin.
When the original edition of this “Epicenter” book came out two years ago, you and I were saying, very few people were talking about Putin being a real threat to the world. But as you point out, as I point out in the book, he is arming Iran. Russia is arming Syria. Russia is arming Sudan. Russia is arming Islamic countries that are our enemies.
Now Russia under Putin has taken direct aggressive military action in Georgia, invading Georgia, attacking and killing Georgians, innocent civilians; the first time that Russia has used military force outside of its borders since 1979 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.
BECK: All right. I want to put up a map here. You tell me what this map means. Put this map up, it`s a straight line from Moscow to Jerusalem.
ROSENBERG: Well, what`s interesting about this is that in a Bible prophecy, in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 38 and 39, what is know by Bible scholars as the War of Gog and Magog, the Ezekiel prophet wrote that Moscow, Russia would eventually form an alliance with Iran, Sudan, Syria, these other countries and come down from the north and attack Israel after Israel had been reborn as a country in the last days of history.
What`s interesting about this —
BECK: You`re a drag. Seriously.
ROSENBERG: If a straight line, as this map shows, from Russia through Israel, you have to go through Georgia. I`ve told you before on radio, on television, I`m not saying for sure that this prophecy is coming true in our lifetime. It`s too early to say that, but in 2,500 years since Ezekiel wrote the prophecy, we haven`t seen the convergence of events as we have in just the last few years and I would say even in the last few weeks.
BECK: Joel, let me ask you a question. Do you ever think to yourself, I mean, Jesus, just get it over with, come on, what are you waiting for, just do it?
ROSENBERG: No, just the opposite. I really want the Gospel to get spread in Russia, in Iran, in Syria, and elsewhere.
BECK: It`s a lot of work, Joel.
ROSENBERG: I pray for peace.
BECK: A lot of work.
ROSENBERG: We`ve got to pray for peace but prepare for war. We have to understand that Vladimir Putin is an enemy. He`s not a friend, he`s not a partner for peace, he is an enemy. I`ve been saying this for more than two years. Now I think it`s very clear to the world that he is building — he has joined the axis of evil.
BECK: It is really, it is — and I think we said it on this program two years ago as well that the axis of evil, the allies and axis power are forming. And now I think Russia has finally stepped out into the open and said, oh, yes, by the way, we`re the head of it.
Because they really are, because of their massive size, because their resources, their natural resources, because of the resources of nuclear weapons, et cetera, et cetera. I see them coming in and playing a role of protector, really, of Iran. If Israel goes in and they`ve got a closing window, if Israel goes in and attacks Iran, I think Russia`s going to stand in between and say, hey, America, back off, or it`s war on us.
ROSENBERG: I think that Putin is probably sending messages right now that Israel shouldn`t do this and is in fact, of course, arming Iran rapidly with billions of dollars worth of high-tech weaponry.
And you`re right; this window is closing for Israel. The United States doesn`t seem to have any interest in neutralizing the Iranian nuclear threat before the Bush administration is over and we don`t know who the next president will be. We`re in a dead heat right now.
BECK: Hang on, hang on, hang on. I have to take a quick break. Let me come back and I want to pick it up there on is there a difference between these politicians and why the pick of Joe Biden. Coming up in just a sec.
Back in a minute.
BECK: Back with the author of “Epicenter 2.0,” Joel Rosenberg.
Joel we were talking about Russia and Putin and Iran and Israel. I think the window is between Election Day — I don`t think Israel will move before Election Day — between Election Day and, what is it, January 20 something, for inauguration day, that they would go in and move, do you —
ROSENBERG: Correct, sir. That is increasingly likely, I think. That`s what`s so worrisome.
Look, Israel has a very narrow window because it wants President Bush still be in power because Bush has been the most pro-Israel president in history. But also, the Russians have sold a billion dollars worth of anti- aircraft missiles to Iran. They haven`t delivered them yet. So there`s another six to eight months before those systems get in place.
BECK: Biden, I think, was picked because — I mean Obama, he just looked horrible on the Georgia thing. And I think Biden was picked because it was like, okay, we need somebody who can recognize a map of the world and who the good guys and bad guys are, but Biden can`t even recognize the bad guys. He doesn`t know who the bad guys are with Russia.
He was for detente, he was with Jimmy Carter thinking that the fall of the Shah would be a good thing for the people of Iran. I mean, this guy has got it wrong as much as Jimmy Carter has had it wrong.
ROSENBERG: Well, sadly, that`s true. Joe Biden is a nice guy and he was right on Georgia — he was, not Obama, in wanting to expand NATO to include Georgia, but Senator Biden opposes regime change in Iran. He wants direction negotiations with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He said that if Bush were to bomb Iran to neutralize the nuclear threat, he would impeach him.
This is a very serious set of misjudgments that has just been added to the Democratic ticket.
BECK: How are you against regime change in Iran? I can`t even —
ROSENBERG: Senator Biden has said, I posted these quotes directly on my Web log, but he said he wants conduct change, not regime change.
I`m sorry, that`s fundamentally misunderstanding who`s in the regime. The Ayatollah Khamenei and the President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, these men believe fundamentally that they`ve been chosen by God to bring about the Islamic Messiah by destroying the United States —
BECK: You`re harshing my mellow, Joel.
ROSENBERG: Well, this is what`s dangerous. If you — men like this who might lead our country, if they don`t understand who the enemy is, they`re going to make wrong choices.
BECK: See what I mean? Joel, thank you very much.
That`s what I`m saying, America, I don`t know about anybody else, but come on, Jesus, I`m sleepy, bring it on.
From New York, we`ll see you tomorrow. Good night, America.
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